Okay so I decided to hire a contractor for the first time in a long time. We had a structural beam put in since the original beam was rotting and we already had extra support on the other side of the wall supporting the joists over there. But nothing supporting the joists on the other side.
The guy put sandwiched 2 2x8s instead of using an LVL, I specifically asked for LVL because I though using regular lumber was a ridiculous idea, we wanted it fixed right. Those boards are being held up by temporary jack posts, I found the manfucator, checked their website and theres a big note about them being for temporary use only. They bolted the jack right into the 3" concrete slab, no footings put in. And theres pretty significant gaps between the beam and some of the joists, one of them I can fully fit my pinky through to the other side, most of them I could slide a little piece of cardboard through.
I did get a structural engineer to right up a report. In the report he says to use a “3inch adjustable steel post” and “use commonly accepted construction practices”. So I assumed this meant 3 inch adjustable lallys, rated for permanent use and commonly accepted practices meant putting a footing beneath the structural column.
I called the contractor and he had a few things to say
The jacks are fine for long term use, theres no need for footings because the engineer didn’t specifically state it, the jack is technically a 3inch adjustable steel post.
The 2 2x8 is even better than LVL because there’s 2 of them and it provides better support for less money.
(Here’s my favorite) The gaps between the beam and joists are fine and eventually the house will settle and the joists will bear on the beam. Putting in shims would be pointless because they’d get crushed and compressed when the house settles. (He really told me to wait until your floor sags and it’ll line up)
Now I’ve done this type of work before, I did general construction for years, but I feel like I’m going crazy here.
Is anything I said out of place? Am I over reacting here?
We paid for a permanent structural beam to be installed and got 2x8s held up by jack posts with no footings. Has anyone seen this before? This is an integral beam that’s supporting about 10 joists, not extra support.
Splitting the 2x8 by not drilling a pilot hole and failure to fill all four holes in the top of the jack would likely be an instant failure by the building inspectors here.
“You only need 2, it’s not going anywhere”
Also most of the bolts they put in are either crooked or not fully drilled in.
International Residential Code R407.3 is pretty clear about the post needing to be Schedule 40, 3" in diameter. IMO, this is not code-compliant.
“The columns shall be restrained to prevent lateral displacement at the bottom end and attached to framing at the top. Wood columns shall be not less in nominal size than 4 inches by 4 inches (102 mm by 102 mm). Steel columns shall be not less than 3 inch diameter (76 mm) Schedule 40 pipe manufactured in accordance with ASTM A53 Grade B or approved equivalent.”
The column is clearly not 3" diameter, nor schedule 40. The number of missing bolts in the bottom would fail the lateral movement restriction. The IRC is almost certainly referenced by your local building code. For example, in NY it’s at https://codes.iccsafe.org/content/NYSRC2020P1 , and for Washington https://codes.iccsafe.org/content/WARC2021P1 . You should be able to find the referenced code for your state.
502.5 mentions span tables you can use to determine if the spans are compliant. I’d wager they aren’t, given the shoddy work.
Those span tables are in 602.7(1) AND 602.7(2).
I can’t remember the IRC code that says all holes must be filled, and it’s already past my bedtime. I’ll do some more searching tomorrow.
Wow thank you so much. I was trying to find codes earlier but was flustered and gave up after getting too frustrated with google. This is really good stuff for reference. Very much appreciated!
https://www.homeinspector.org/reporter-articles/inspecting-adjustable-steel-columns/
also does a good job of breaking down the column types.
You’re completely right. The contractor either doesn’t know what they’re doing or they’re cutting corners to be done sooner.
I assume it’s the second. He told me he does this all the time and no one’s ever complained. After letting him talk for 20 minutes on the phone and him saying things that I knew weren’t right, I told him I did general construction for 6 years and I’ve done jobs like this before. He tried telling me I was just upset then because I could’ve done it myself for less money. In fact I was so excited to not have to do something, theres so much to do here and I’m beat. I assume most people would just look at it and see metal on wood and think it’s good.
Thanks for the sanity check.
If this needed a permit + inspection, that could be a good route to getting the contractor to fix the work. Or having it inspected by the engineer.
Also, if you have a trusted third party fail the inspection and the contractor doesn’t fix it, you have good documentation for whatever next step you take (court, refusing payment, etc).
Holy shit. That is terrible.
But it doesn’t really matter how bad it is, if you asked them to do something and they ignored it that’s inexcusable unless it’s illegal or breaking code. Doesn’t matter if you asked them to use a fucking 30” old growth log.
I don’t know what common practice is regarding that adjustable support. We have one similar that’s holding up our entire basement ceiling lol, but it looks like it was built that way with the house. Doesn’t look good but I’m guessing it’s fine.
That does sound pretty jank for other reasons but those post jacks being installed long term are incredibly common around here, and yeah they’re only supposed to be for temporary use. I’m more surprised when I walk into a house that doesn’t have them. My house has them and if you look at the floor joists I’d be scared what would happen if you spun them down haha, the joists are all bent and there’s a slight warp in the floor in the portion that don’t have them. It’s a 135 year old home so I’m not really worried about it.
(Here’s my favorite) The gaps between the beam and joists are fine and eventually the house will settle and the joists will bear on the beam. Putting in shims would be pointless because they’d get crushed and compressed when the house settles. (He really told me to wait until your floor sags and it’ll line up)
Is the contractor planning to come back and fix all your cracked drywall/plaster for free? Half the point of installing additional supports is to prevent any further sagging. Whoever did this needs to find a new profession.