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Locking. The comment section is a perfect summary of why so many people don’t want to be associated with Linux users. I should’ve removed the post outright because it is inflammatory, reactionary, and invites toxicity – evidenced by the fact that the downvotes on dissenting comments are largely made by the same users. I wonder if a pattern might emerge.
There is a discussion to be had about the topic… but it went to exchanging insults and downvoting out of disagreement.
the largest barrier to linux is its user base
Dont interact with it then. There are manuals.
Replying to that with an “RTFM” response has to be some kind of meta-joke.
It was meant to be, seems people were unhappy with it 😅
Outdated and poorly written so a normal user can’t do shit, but yeah, there are manuals and documentation.
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This is one of those situations where “both sides are bad” actually holds weight.
Yes, Linux communities are full of insufferable shitheads who have way too much emotional investment in what is essentially a tool. I onced looked up some information on Youtube about flatpacks to educated myself and ended up watching some moron have a 20 minute meltdown about how they’re “soy and unmanly”. As a Linux user, that is fucking embarassing.
Hardline Windows users are shitheads in their own right, too. If something isn’t handed to them or requires effort beyond dragging and droppping files, it’s proper shit and you’re just an out-of-touch nerd for trying to mainstream this esoteric nonsense. It’s a thought-terminating cliche about Linux and its users that’s about 25 years out of date. I don’t know shit about the terminal, BASH, or what the fuck a GRUB is but I’ve been using Linux Mint for two years now with zero issues. Yes, even when running games.
The shift to Linux is a tough one, and it just cannot happen all at once. The longer you spend in a workflow, the longer it takes to change it. If we offer our support and kindness to people when they struggle with Windows, it lends more credibility when we recommend Linux. Plus, I’m not really going to complain about another opportunity to call out when Microsoft does more dumb shit.
No one deserves to be treated like that. The fact that there are people that righteously believe people deserve to be treated like that is part of our problems as a society.
Agreed, and I think Gordon Ramsay is an excellent choice for this meme, because he engages in the exact kind of behavior that people are celebrating with this meme: flinging verbal abuse at people who are ‘doing it wrong’ and overall out-group bullying.
Wanting to scream at people for using or complaining about Windows is peak “touch grass.”
Ah yes let’s be dicks. That’s how you can get people to switch over.
What kept me from swapping longer than anything else was spite for the shitty linux community.
And they’re straignt up delusional about the amount of software that works on Linux. There is no FOSS equivalent to Wilcom, for example. It’s like how they claim GIMP is the same as Photoshop, but I’ve used both and GIMP is absolute ass in comparison.
As a European IT admin:
Everyone in HR, finance, sales, management can all be moved to Linux. They all use webinterfaces for all of their work.
Software development, no windows specific software.
Even marketing / image creation… More and more software is ready or available for Linux.
Ignoring this very real option for most of your people is indeed silly these days.
Hell it might be worth having a central windows VM that people can rdp into for that one old windows app.
Fun for you, but certainly not possible for your average company.
HR, finance, sales, management only webinterface they use is Sharepoint. All the rest is done on proprietary software and Excel.
Software development have been creating Access programs because they need to work with some old IBM server. We’d not only have to replace that hardware, we would also have to replace the experts and hire ones with knowledge about the new languages to be used, and convert everything on the servers of course…
Marketing is maybe the easiest, but they will need to get used to new software.
And all of the users will need to follow training to use Linux.
Users complain when a button moves a centimeter, they will definitely complain when their entire OS changes.
So no, it is easier to rebuild an entire company than it is to switch the environment.
Something tells me that if a city can do it in 2004, so could a company with all the improvements in 2025. And as with the city, the biggest issue will be the management being idiots (corruption) and/or underfunding the IT.
If a company has to treat their employees like delicate flowers who can’t deal with a slightly different interface it’s not the issue with software, but the companies’ training program / policies and unwillingness to invest in them. And it’s not like investments in FOSS IT and your employees wouldn’t pay off, all those proprietary licenses are expensive as hell. See link, the city saved money despite even having to develop whole new tools, acquire licenses and whatnot. Lots of small stuff not necessary today anymore.
Not saying it wouldn’t be a complicated endeavour, but certainly not impossible and definitely one that pays off.
From my MSP and corporate experience it definitely depends on the organization for how viable migrating some users to Linux might be.
I’ve seen some organizations that could be migrated tomorrow if the political will was there, and I’ve seen some organizations where all but 5 of the computer users are running CAD software and interfacing with architectural plotters.
Realistically it all relies on the political will to try something new. With the digital sovereignty push in Europe there’s suddenly a ton of political will to try something new and not just buy whatever Microsoft is selling like many orgs have done for the last nearly 3 decades. It’s also convenient that Microsoft is trying to say tons of perfectly capable machines are ewaste so there’s significant cost savings available to these orgs by switching if they have enough older machines in use still
I see, so quite an old company then. (Access, IBM server and sharepoint, etc) Not something a newer company would be using.
I can see you would be stuck with that older tech debt. And finding people for that old stuff is harder then finding people that want to use the new stuff.
Teaching people to use Linux? I mean, not much difference between windows and KDE anymore? Just need to know how to log in, and start their software?
In the end, if your company is not able to move and change to a new world / user demands…
I see, so quite an old company then. (Access, IBM server and sharepoint, etc) Not something a newer company would be using.
Oh you sweet sweet summer child
They use the web versions of Microsoft Office?
The important part in business is to not alienate that one power user who does insane Excel magic and singlehandedly keeps the entire company afloat. There’s always one or two of them in any company over a given size
The web version of MS Office is similar enough that for 95% of users it’s no different, but for the other 5% they rely on functionality that hasn’t been ported yet
That said I do think more corporations should be considering Linux as an option for some of their systems. Too many admins insist on installing Windows on everything, refuse to learn Linux and then in the next breath bitch and moan about Microsoft making their lives miserable
I’m getting the idea people are still using ms office? At least use the online version?
From exact to online sap, nextcloud and email clients, it’s all very much web interface based. So buttons are not moving for these users at all.
Often laptops are so underpowered, and office is so bloated now, its better.
Brb, going to get fired for installing Linux on all the work computers.
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You seem really mad and like you give a lot of fucks actually.
Sure
Easily the worst part of the Linux experience is its community.
The Linux community is just a bunch of nerds with superiority complex.
I use Arch btw.
Git gud, I use Gentoo.
Get real noob, I use bare Linux syscalls.
Yeah it’s super weird, if you go to a specific forum for help, like cachyos or bazzite, the community is bearable, and sometimes very helpful without being rude. But if you go to a general forum and state you’re having any issues with Linux you’ll be downvoted to hell and told Linux is still better than windows.
People who bitch and moan about Windows yet dismiss any alternative out of hand aren’t “having any issues with Linux.” Their issues are (a) with Windows and (b) not wanting to hear the truth of that being pointed out to them.
I’m not sure why you’re trying to pretend this post is saying something it’s not.
Obviously, being mean to someone making a good-faith effort to improve themselves and solve their problems is not okay, but that’s not what we’re talking about here.
It’s pretty hard to fit all of what you just said into a meme. For example your meme does not say that windows users are “dismissing any alternative out of hand”. It says windows users that refuse to switch. Maybe they hate windows but they literally must use Fusion 360 or AutoDesk or Meshmixer or RealityCapture or one of the numerous other software options that just do not work on windows.
Anyway, if what your meme is actually about is people that only use the browser and then refuse to switch but still constantly complain then yeah you’re dead on.
It’s pretty hard to fit all of what you just said into a meme.
I see that now!
Anyway, if what your meme is actually about is people that only use the browser and then refuse to switch but still constantly complain then yeah you’re dead on.
My meme is indeed sort of about that, but it’s even more about pushing back on the other thread and similar sentiments, where their flying monkeys defend their useless complaining and then try to make us out as the bad guys for responding in any way short of wallowing in their misery with them.
This has been my experience so far as well. But I’m also a cowboys fan who realizes we suck. So I’m used to being embarrassed by a small handful of my own community.
What? This is made up. Go to the Ask Linux community and explain where this is happening.
You mean the communities where the rules forbid asking newbie questions because people visit them to learn about new developments and inevitable FOSS dramas?
No I’m talking about complaining about the problems you’re having with Linux not asking for help with anything. It’s literally happened in this exact community here, where people ask what issues people encounter with Linux, and if I (or others) say I have any issues I get downvoted to hell.
Interestingly it was more or less the same on Reddit as well.
I mean that part makes sense. This is essentially the exact same community. Linux users will spread to any “general” Linux community on the web.
Because most questions have been asked a thousand times before. Windows users first need to learn to help themselves. Have you considered that I just don’t care to help some stranger switch to linux at all? Sometimes I just want to revel in using something better.
It’s like Reddit, or (self aware) cowboys fans.
The rest of the community embarrasses the large majority of us.
It’s closer to present-day Lemmy. Certainly in terms of the concentration of crazy. A bunch of opinionated jackasses with delusions that their particular niche views are morally correct and should be the norm, and any deviation from that self-declared correct opinion gets shouted down. The wrong distribution, the wrong display server, the wrong init system, your app is not suckless enough, you’re the wrong kind of Libre, you’re wrong about something that a new user doesn’t even know exists… and that extends to maintainers and all the way up to the LKML too. If I saw the state of the discourse back in 2022, I would’ve thought twice about even trying to approach Linux.
It’s kind of crazy that I keep seeing this, as my experience with Linux users on Lemmy has been nothing but positive and helpful. People here are more than happy to help anyone who comes with questions.
Maybe it depends on the instance?
It definitely depends on your home instance. You’re on LBZ, and Ada is a helicopter parent who blocks, bans, and purges anything and anyone that may be upsetting to her children. So yes, you’re probably not exposed to the full picture on Lemmy.
Visit the comment threads on Phoronix and you’ll see WOKE and FASCIST and COMMUNIST and TANKIE and any number of insults thrown around like manure in a monkey cage. Or try to argue in favour of systemd in a high visibility thread and inevitably someone will say that it’s bloat, that it’s corporate trash, and recite “enshittiication” like it’s some Pavlovian reflex.
I make my guess that there are two factors:
-
The Baader-Meinhof Phenomenon (or frequency illusion If somebody has a chip on their shoulder about rude Linux users, the rude Linux users they see will be highly memorable.
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People tend to get back the same energy that they project to other people.
My instance has a very laissez-faire policy, so it’s federated with almost everybody. My experience is the same; I’ve only ever seen self-aware mocking of the Linux-user attitude.
-
I just want everyone to use an operating system that works for them and I’m tired of that being a hot take.
Oh my God right?
There are perfectly valid reasons not to switch to Linux. Many people could switch, which is why encouraging switching is fine, but when the entire work environment is in Windows, or they need specific software that does not work properly (or at all) on Linux, fully switching is not an option. I love me a “Windows Bad, Linux Good” meme, don’t get me wrong, but that is a meme at the end of the day. Reality is often much more nuanced, and this is no exception.
How many valid reasons are there not to switch and then continue to whine about Windows while still expecting sympathy?
This isn’t a “Windows bad, Linux good” meme. This is a meme fighting back at the other thread’s assertion that being less than sympathetic and accepting of their toxic learned helplessness – while they continue to support companies that attack our rights, BTW – somehow makes us the bad guys.
Someone made a tongue in cheek meme pointing out the obnoxious mentality of the “just use Linux” crowd and your response was to double down and prove their point.
Classic
So let me get this straight: Linux users trying in good faith to help people are obnoxious, but Windows users who bitch and moan and refuse to take responsibility for their self-inflicted problems somehow aren’t?
“Just use this other thing instead” has never been a good faith solution for when people have a problem with something else.
It doesn’t matter if you are right that
tool aworks better thantool b, especially when sometimes people are unfortunately not providing their own tools.So no, your take is wrong again.
I say this from the position of someone who literally has tux tattooed on them.
Only incidental to your overall comment but that’s a great tattoo.
The best part is I got it in Amsterdam and after bumbling through my awful Dutch the artist asked if we could switch to English where we both recognized each others accent and discovered we grew up in the same neighborhood (on the other side of the planet) and went to the same high school 6 years apart.
That’s…fucking crazy but really cool. That’s such a great story to go along with the tattoo.
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Chill it with the insults.
First of all:
Just use this other thing instead” has never been a good faith solution
Bullshit. That is very often an excellent solution!
Second, the thing this post was made in response to is as follows, and I quote:
Sometimes people just want to be able to complain about Windows or iOS without being told about Linux.
…
If the obvious reply to the post is “use Linux,” as a rule, do not post that. You are not adding anything.
I counter with this: if you [speaking generally, the same way the the original post was – not referring to @prettybunnys specifically] know the obvious reply you’re gonna get is “use Linux” and you don’t want to hear it, don’t fucking post your complaint in the first place because you [again, speaking generally] aren’t adding anything! You [still speaking generally] are not entitled to complain and then tone-police the responses you solicited! Who the fuck do you [even more speaking generally] think you are, to believe that you have the right to bother us publicly with your problems [continuing to speak generally, and that part makes it obvious because “your problems” refers to Windows problems and @prettybunnys apparently has a Tux tattoo] but we don’t have the right to ‘bother’ you with the solutions to them in response?! How is that behavior anything other than incredibly toxic and condescending?
Who do I think I am
A human who largely succeeds in communicating with other humans without resorting to talking to them the way you are.
Take care dude
I was using “you” in the general sense the same way the post I was quoting used it, not to address @prettybunnys in particular. In fact, I’m well aware that specific-you was not among the general-“you” I was addressing, as I referenced people with “your [Windows] problems” and specific-you had made it clear that you’re a Linux user. (Cute tattoo, BTW, although I’d have believed you even without the picture.)
Anyway, I apologize for not making that clear enough. I should’ve noted it explicitly like I did in this other comment, but I thought the context was sufficient. Or maybe I just got lazy, and have no good excuse. Either way, personally attacking you was not what I intended.
For some people, using windows in a VM might also be a good fallback, specially for older and/or lightweight software.
Anything to do with hw, non-steam gaming or heavy applications might be a hit or miss
How many people have such work envs?
I hate that people (not you) keep saying “Linux is for tech people only” and “My workflow is super Windows specific”.
Like is both are true, fine, but that must be like 0.1% of users.
A lot. Like, a lot.
Have you ever worked corporate
I have, and a colleague next to me handed me a Fedora DVD on a third consecutive day of hour and half long morning windows updates.
Never looked back.
Anyone dependent on Adobe suite.
Or OBS if they decided on Wayland since the shortcuts/hotkeys don’t work unless OBS is the active window.
This just happened to me… And it was the tipping point since Xlink Kai still doesn’t work on Linux, Music Bee is still my go to music player and MP3Tag only works on Windows… So I dunno, I just threw the towel, it works fine for a lot of things, but there’s too many “but” in my use case so I gave up for now.
anyone who needs microsoft office. or the adobe suite. or visual studio. or autoCAD. or…
there’s a lot of professional creation software that’s not on linux. and yes, we have alternatives, and they’re cool, but they don’t work for everyone.
Office is online nowadays…
And what is the percentage of users who need such specific software?
Depends on the organization. During my time at an MSP I saw plenty of orgs that could be switched to Linux tomorrow if the desire arose because everything happens in a web browser, but I also saw orgs where virtually every computer user was using different verieties of CAD so compatibility with both CAD and their fancy architectural plotters was business critical
At least 90% of the companies are like that.
like nearly every single work environment
do you ever stop to think about it sometimes?
how worked up you are because people use an operating system you don’t like. imagine doing that with other things.
“ugh this shirt is kinda itchy” “well that’s your own damn fault for using this bad shirt!!! next time switch to a better shirt you useless fuck!”
I mean if that person kept wearing that shirt every fucking day and complaining about it every time, i probably would eventually say that. Like its not that complicated.
Except the shirt is fused to their body. And they are incapable of removing it.
Who is your imaginary person you made up that does that literally every day? Where’s the strawman you made up?
I don’t much care what people use but to me it feels more like:
“ugh, this shirt is taking photos of my nipples and publishing them for everyone to see and I had to consent to even be able to put it on after having paid for it, also as of late, it’s started making me watch ads in order to wash it and wants me to talk to an IA and train it or it’ll shock me.”
Obviously people are going to tell you to use something else.
I get worked up when people constantly complain about shit they chose, or somehow are incapable of learning basic shit that is trivially easy compared to the job they do every day.
“change your skeleton or get bigger pants, dumbfuck” is one I said to someone who kept wearing tiny pants and constantly complaining about it leaving marks, being hard to poop, etc. it was not an issue of being overweight either, they just really wanted this ugly pair of probably child size pants to work.
or when both of my parents kept complaining about their viruses and calling me about every popup to ask if its the real antivirus or fake, after like all of highschool and a few more years putting up with it, it was “fuck this, its linux time and you can get used to it or pay someone else to help you” now my dad can happily pirate movies without fucking up everything and my mom can at least not be panicked over antivirus notifications and call me at irritating times of day and I don’t dread seeing them any more.
And that’s why they don’t switch to Linux.
I’m talking about after they refuse to help themselves. They want their learned helplessness and Microsoft stockholm syndrome validated, and fuck that!
Ok, but my point is that, if you want them to switch to Linux and because you like it and seem to hate Windows, I think that’s a reasonable assumption, treating them poorly will not make that better for anyone. They won’t want to put forth the effort and as a primarily Windows user and having tried Linux on many occasions, I can say it can be a daunting task especially when you need to use the command line. In the past I can honestly say that I have had a lot of help from very knowledgeable and friendly Linux users. But please don’t deny that Linux users aren’t just a little bit elitist.
In fact I can already picture the current Linux community complaining about the state of Linux if it were to skyrocket in popularity. Suddenly it would be like, all these stupid Windows users coming to Linux, ruining the experience. Companies trying to profit off of it. I liked it better when it was a small community.
Did you actually see the thing this was posted in response to? It was about scolding Linux users for even politely suggesting switching, which is the bare minimum to even begin to try to help solve the complainers’ real problem (corporate enshittification) instead of just the symptom du jour they were complaining about at any given moment.
Don’t scold us for trying to help you and then have the utter fucking gall to try to police our tone instead of your own!
I don’t want them to switch. I don’t care if you use windows or not. It’s you or them who have to suffer windows not me. Why should I care? Switch to linux or don’t. Means nothing to me.
I want Omnissa (VMWare) Horizon Client to support Wayland. Until then, while I have to boot into Windows for one thing, I might as well boot into Windows for everything.
Maybe next year will be the year of the Linux Desktop.
I’d rather use x11 than windows. But you do you.
Yeah, my monitors didn’t work under Ubuntu X11. At least on PopOS, that just worked.
Why are people ratioing this purely subjective take? I’ve had builds that didn’t get along with various peripherals. That’s like a super common refrain from people with a great many distros.
Heck, that can even happen with Windows.
My Logitech F710 never worked right with Windows because the driver’s power saving feature doesn’t mesh well with Windows 10’s power saving feature, causing dropped inputs. No such problems under Linux.
Not everything works everywhere. People are used to how things don’t work with Windows and learning how things don’t work differently with a Linux distro is annoying because you learn by running into problems. If you have people to switch over and have a good time you have to help than through this.
I have so many questions, but it’s ok if you dont want or can’t answer them. why doesn’t omnissa work in wayland? X11-only apps are still supposed to work (because of a compatibility layer xwayland), and I take advantage of that all the time with multiple apps. and why don’t your monitors work? hdmi/dp/dvi are all very basic things that should just work, regardless of using X11 or not
The app didn’t seem to respect the environment variable for X11 I tried to set for that one app.
I have an odd monitor configuration, one 2k high refresh rate, HDR monitor in the center, 1080p monitors to the left, right, and above. The right is also a higher refresh rate.
I could get it to work in Ubuntu… inconsistently. Sometimes I’d log in and have one 640x480 monitor in the center. PopOS just worked.
The app didn’t seem to respect the environment variable for X11 I tried to set for that one app.
that should only matter if it would run in wayland mode and you want to override it to run in x11 mode.
though, maybe omnissa tries to use wayland mode, but does that very poorly, and in that case you would actually want to override this.
there’s multiple ways to disable wayland for an app (actually what you do is convince the app to not use wayland), and it depends on the framework the app uses. but setting the environment variableWAYLAND_DISPLAY=(like this, to the empty value) should work, as lots of apps look for that to know if they should use wayland.usually you set the environment variables for an app in its own launcher icon’s editor menu. there’s other ways too but this does not require using the terminal.
I have an odd monitor configuration, one 2k high refresh rate, HDR monitor in the center, 1080p monitors to the left, right, and above. The right is also a higher refresh rate.
I could get it to work in Ubuntu… inconsistently. Sometimes I’d log in and have one 640x480 monitor in the center. PopOS just worked.
yeah that’s a bit complicated. but I would expect kde plasma to handle it well. it has a display config menu a bit like windows has, where you can drag each display to where it should be. be aware though that it does not affect the user selector screen that you see between a fresh boot and the first login; that’s configurable too but in a different way.
Insufferable
I know, right? People who wallow in their problems instead of working to solve them are insufferable, and people who scold us for trying to help are even worse!
Proposing a “solution” that was never a possibility in the first place isn’t helping either.
I don’t switch to linux because I need to use “breakout rooms” in Teams on a daily basis and they disabled that for linux.
WTF?
I mean, my work PC is managed by the company and thus a Windows device, but why disable that feature? Yes, it somewhat makes sense if you see it like “we don’t want other OS to have all features to make costumers less likely to switch” BUT Teams on Mac has some unique features that haven’t been ported to windows and are still exclusively available on Mac, so…?!
They stopped supporting Teams on Linux entirely. Linux users are supposed to run Teams in a browser and the browser version lacks certain features, even things like custom background images; you can only use the ones provided by Microsoft.
I use an unofficial client, which seems to be based on the old official one. That gives me most of the functionality back.
Which client is that and where can I find it?
https://github.com/IsmaelMartinez/teams-for-linux
It’s also on Flathub and the AUR. And the Snap store, if you use that for some reason.
that’s weird. does that not work in the browser either?
I don’t think it ever worked in the browser. Like all office apps, the browser version is limited
Jeez…microsoft should just explode atp
Yeah, this kind of stuff makes me not want to admit to using Linux in public. Let’s not mistake hating Windows for a personality.
Nah, they don’t switch cause they are too lazy to learn something new. They find something about linux to complain about so they can go “see, they are all jerks and now I won’t switch”
They never would have put in the effort, toxic community or not.Removed by mod
Yeah it’s a tough switch. It’s a lot like getting out of a relationship that you know isn’t gonna work, but every time you go to end it you think “hey it isn’t that bad right NOW is it?” and put it off.
A clean break would be faster and easier for everybody involved.
Now you DO stand to accrue some extra skills by spending some time with a foot in both workflows. It makes you have to learn some weird shit. But in the long run idk if that actually helps more than it hurts.
I took a long time to make the switch lol.
Yeah it’s a tough switch. It’s a lot like getting out of a relationship that you know isn’t gonna work, but every time you go to end it you think “hey it isn’t that bad right NOW is it?” and put it off.
A clean break would be faster and easier for everybody involved.
Exactly! And having enablers of that toxic relationship, like the person quoted in that other post, scolding people for making that exact point only makes the situation even worse.
how hard is it to like linuz and not be an asshole?😮😮
Unfortunately asking people to learn anything makes you look like an asshole. If you make someone think when they don’t want to? Asshole.
Unsolicited advice is asshole-behavior, like it or not.
It’s not unsolicited though, the thread OP is referring to was complaining about people suggesting Linux in response to complaints about Windows.
If someone hasn’t asked “what can I use instead of Windows?” then “use Linux” is unsolicited advice. If you absolutely can’t stop yourself from suggesting Linux every time someone wants to complain about using Windows—something they might not even have a choice in, if their job requires it—at least suggest something useful for their Windows problem. Some jackass rolling by when you have a flat tire and saying “you should have taken the bus” isn’t offering helpful information, they’re being an asshole.
This meme isn’t asking people to learn anything, it’s just shitting on windows users.
I think it’s shitting on windows users who complain constantly about windows but are unwilling to learn anything else.
It’s not like Linux is 1:1 compatible with everything on windows. Maybe you play a game with kernel anticheat, you don’t have a choice in the matter. There’s no reason to just be a dick about it.
Maybe you play a game with kernel anticheat, you don’t have a choice in the matter.
Who’s holding a gun to your head and forcing you to play games with anticheat?!
There’s no reason to just be a dick about it.
There’s every reason to “be a dick” (your words, not mine) to lying assholes who claim in bad faith that they have no choice when they obviously do.
“Why should people want to play the games they want to play” is the weirdest argument to take.
Who’s holding a gun to your head and forcing you to play games with anticheat?!
Now you’re expecting both an operating system and lifestyle change of people. Are you hearing yourself?
No it turns out that just being an arsehole makes you an arsehole
Impossible.
