Cross-posted from “TRUE communism!” by @Muaddib@sopuli.xyz in !politicalmemes@lemmy.world
just buy a cock cage and find a keyholder near you
there are many in Germany
you are a good boy and don’t need to subjugate yourself to this humiliation
Start the argument
Disengage
Hey do you think it’s kind of weird and self aggrandizing that you named the whole website after yourself?
Disengage
To be fair, the instance is just on a subdomain of db0’s personal site.
I’d do the same to avoid paying for a domain name.But facts hurt Tankie feelings so you’re actually going to be banned from .ml and Hexbear for pointing that out.
oh, I’m sorry you are so upset but I promise I won’t ban you or irelephant for your ignorance.
happy to see I’m not the only one that’s still browsing this radioactive wasteland of a thread to keep dunking; if I fall, pick up my keyboard behind me
I YET HUNGER FOR BATTLE, FEED ME LIBERALS
Always good to fight other leftists as fascism closes its grip on the imperial core. Great strategy.
(Posts like this aren’t allowed on Hexbear, and for good reason. What value is there in shitstirring like this? Why be needlessly antagonistic? I really don’t get it.)
You don’t get it we’re not leftists, we’re red fascists.
Also
Yep, Russia did the thing.
In the meme image.
Authoritarian Communism broke, then it flipped back to Authoritarian Capitalism.
Yep, it had enemies.
Yep those enemies were very involved in helping it to break.
But this still is what happened.
Yep, it took a while.
Sorry the comic is ~80 years long?
Horrible line of reasoning. Anarchist projects have all reverted to capitalism much faster than the Soviet Union did.
Not without being conquered by fascists or red fash. I.e they’re internally consistent.
The USSR was also destroyed by encirclement and (nearly 100 years) of pressure from reactionaries.
But again, you and and the people on the comm you named after yourself are the ones hypocritically positing that any socialist project that fails is evidence that that project’s ideology inevitably leads to capitalist takeover. None of the “tankies” on Hexbear are saying that because it’s asinine, but if you actually believe it, to be ideologically consistent, would require condemning anarchism also.
red fash
Deeply unserious
the only good revolution is the one that fails
Okay, so stop being a literal child and draw that thought out to its logical conclusions. I did that fifteen fucking years ago and realized, oh, hey, China isn’t Literally Evil for Doing Authoritarianism. They exist in a world with the fucking CIA, and all the feel good anarcho idealism in the world isn’t going to protect them from their literal fucking terrorism.
If you actually use your fucking brain you’d understand that it matters what “authority” is used “for.” Let me spoil it for you- using it to defend a revolution from internal and external reaction and imperialism IS GOOD, UNLESS YOU’RE A FUCKING REACTIONARY.
You don’t need hierarchies to defend against imperialism
You don’t need hierarchies to defend against imperialism
Anarchist projects have all reverted to capitalism much faster than the Soviet Union did.
Not without being conquered by fascists or red fash.
You sure you don’t need those hierarchies buddy? You suuuuuuuure?
this is why people like me just laugh and call you a fucking child, because like, what are you even on? What does your revolutionary society look like? How is it organized?
You just out yourself as an ignorant, illiterate fuck who doesn’t realize that political anarchism is about the abolition of unjust and arbitrary hierarchies, not some idealist bullshit ass “we need a non hierarchical society” and a belief that you just get there by fucking magic. You are going to need to have a political organization of some kind, and guess what? The establishment of that is inherently fucking hierarchical!
What makes it good is not being a hierarchy based on fucking nobility or property ownership or oppressive class relations, dipshit. You are better off jerking yourself to death in your goon cave than chasing after some platonic ideal of A Lack of Hierarchy when here in the fucking real world the bourgoisie, fascists and cops are closing the noose around your neck and mine.
I’d tell you to grow the fuck up but I know you’re just going to keep crying about authority and hierarchy while every single fucking lying weaselly ass statement from your mouth assists the imperialists and the bourgeoisie, whether you know it or not
… You don’t get it?
This is an Anarchist instance.
Anarchists are extremely critical of the concept of ‘the State’ itself, tend to want to either totally abolish it, or at least strip it down so much or break it apart that it essentially isn’t a ‘State’ any more.
Tankies embrace, and essentially worship the State.
… Also, in basically every single recorded instance of a succesful or attempted leftist revolution in modern human history, tankies ally with anarchists to overthrow the existing State, and then murder all of them after they’ve established themselves as the new State or proto-State.
One could argue that it seems to be in the material interest of authoritarian statists to extend false allyship to ‘fellow leftists’, and then betray them as quickly as they abandon their ideal of a ‘classless society’ and begin to assert themselves as the new ruling class.
There’s a 101 level answer for your ‘why so antagonistic’ question.
Tankies historically cry ‘Unity! Unity!’ and do exactly what you are doing, trying to shame those who are skeptical… and then the rhetoric flips on a dime and the cry switches to ‘Purity! Faith!’
…
Also worth noting is your framing of this as antagonistic in the first place.
I guess you find the evidence of history thus far to largely be antagonistic to your worldview?
I don’t know, I wouldn’t want to put words in your mouth, but that is my assumption.
I could be wrong though.
The way you liberals need to define ideologies the US government taught you to hate as “religions” is pretty interesting to me.
I’ve studied economics and poli sci academically, have degrees in both, did my own independent research, came to the conclusion that the anarchist perspective is ultimately the most useful approach to analyze and critique… all societies, throughout all history, with the least ideological blindspots, with the most at least broadly accurate predictive power.
But sure, ok, I am one of the liberals whom I frequently argued against and critqued, ok.
Anyways, do you have an actual retort, or just a form of ideologically flavored ad hominem?
-yawn-
So just to be clear, you’re the only free thinker and everyone who doesn’t agree with you is a mindless sheep blindly following their ideology as a religion?
Am I the only free thinker?
No, of course not?
Do all tankie/MLs engage in what could otherwise be an actually productive and insightful conversation with the absolutely most badfaith and toxic rhetoric that is humanly possible, immedeately, right out of the gate, like rabid cult members defending their beliefs?
In my experience, not 100% of the time, but 95% of the time, yes.
So I guess thanks to you that 95% is getting closer to rounding over to 96%.
You got anything other than an ad hom?
In constantly calling all your interlocutors cultists, you’re making it pretty hard to see anyone else as the bad faith adhom abusers here
just a form of ideologically flavored ad hominem?
Ridiculous statement for someone who incessantly calls the most predominant socialist tendency on earth a “religion.”
Edit: also lmao poli sci and economics degree
“Excuse me, the only real socialists are people with professional level liberal ideological education”
You claimed I was brainwashed by the government, I told you I wasn’t.
Your response is ‘Ridiculous!’ and then a strawman.
… this is evidently your strategy for fostering left-unity, to just attempt to rhetorically insult me until I submit to your way of thinking?
You ‘argue’ like a power tripping narcissist sociopath, it is actually funny to me that you seemingly lack awareness of how vindictive and manipulative you come across.
I guess the only good revolution is the one that is openly antagonistic to tbose whom it claims to represent, speak for, advocate for with unity.
I’m not trying to foster left unity with you, because frankly to consider you an anarchist would be such rank anti-anarchist sectarianism that Hexbear mods would be correct to permaban me. You’re a liberal.
Btw, I think that accusing anarcho-communists of having an ideology that inevitably leads to ecocide is pretty sectarian also (or again, maybe not sectarian. It’s not sectarian for a liberal [you] to be anti-anarchist, just shitty), and you haven’t engaged with this point but you’re posting ziq’s articles and this is one of their states positions so that’s something you need to deal with for yourself.
You called Marxism a religion before my comment, which was about your initial ad hominem comparison to religion, and frankly suggesting that the ideologies that you are opposed to are the ones the US government wants you to oppose is an objective fact.
Ah yes, the evidence of history. Like all the successful anarchist revolutions?
I am not aware of any anarchists that even predict that some kind of anarchist revolution is any kind of inevitable.
And if there were some, I would disagree with them.
I am not purpoting to have some kind of perfect plan to ‘achieve anarchism’.
I don’t need to.
It’s ya’ll that tend to have a dogmatic, ideological faith in a perfect way to do things, that things should be done, that things inevitably will be done.
…
Anyway, the evidence of history I am referring to is that basically all self described ‘Communist’ states/societies haven’t ever really come close to Marx’s utopian conception of a classless society at the proverbial ‘end’ of Communism…
They mostly either reform or transform themselves into a highly state-managed form of capitalism, or into something with less overt direct state control over a hybrid state/capitalist economy, allowing private businesses and capitalists to operate under fairly significant levels of regulation…
Both of those will almost always only ever allow a single political party, clamp down on freedom of political association/expression, speech, etc… these societies very much still do have significant wealth disparity, ergo, social classes.
…
And those’re pretty much the best case scenarios.
They can also just collapse into… well basically, roughly fascism; a totalitarian, nationalistic, jingoistic central state that works with, grants favors to various capitalist oligarchs, corporations, as opposed to directly managing them or heavily regulating them…
In these societies, wealth disparity and thus class disparity tends to be even more significant… and they tend to put on a show of pretending to be liberal and democratic, though the extent of that effort ebbs and flows back toward social and governmental illiberalism over time.
It can get worse than that, but then we tend to get into ‘thats not real communism’ or basically just meme/schrodinger’s irony level argument territory, at least in my prior experience or discussions with tankies.
…
I don’t have a problem admitting that no anarchist revolution has succeeded in making a stable anarchist society at the scope and scale of a nation-state, with some kind of … assumed authoritative forceful control over a defined physical region.
Partially because… that isn’t really what at least I personally view as any kind of useful goal of my idea of anarchism.
…
If you doubt the history of tankies back stabbing anarchists… hold please, will update with source.
EDIT:
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/ziq-tankies-and-the-left-unity-scam
There it is!
No sense in me retyping all of this myself.
EDIT 2:
Or maybe its this one:
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/various-authors-always-against-the-tanks/
Marx’s utopian conception of a classless society
Tell me you don’t understand Marx without telling me you don’t understand Marx
Edit: LMFAO YOU CITED ZIQ BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
This person’s works also include Burn the Bread Book, an anti-Anarcho-Communist screed in which they advocate for the end of civilization, and return to each person producing all their own food, an idea that is openly ecofascist and would kill billions, first and foremost a large number of disabled and chronically ill people.
I think you should carefully consider where your ideas are coming from.
People can can have some ideas or writings that are good, and some ideas or writings that are bad.
Other people can use their own brains to pick through those ideas on their own and formulate their own worldviews.
Which other genocidal anti-communist, anti-anarchist authors do you suggest have “some good ideas?”
Marxism-Leninism is the ideology of the factory owner.
Man hexbear is pissed and just can’t help but defend their lust for authoritarians. Then ask for left unity when we won’t want to be with people who uncritically support China and North Korea.
Maybe someday hexbear will learn better but today isn’t that day.
They got so upset some of them resorted to ableism. Just astounding stuff.
I’ve seen them using ableist slurs, i try to report them when they do.
Such radical leftists they just use disabilities as insults.
Clearly the tankie brain cannot comprehend criticism from the left…
Not ableismquick, explain how that’s ableism. Like holy shit you peeps are completely shameless in trying to do quick gotchas.
Calling into question the functioning of someone’s brain is pretty neuronormative.
I’m not being that serious though, because I also can’t find any example of someone being ableist to you beyond calling you stupid (it was me, I did that).
Hexbear has probably the lowest tolerance for ableism of any place I’ve seen on the internet. The raiding parties you see coming into your instance to bash liberals on the internet and correct their disinformation are not really representative of the tone of conversation on the actual instance itself between people who aren’t spoiling for a rumble, not that I would expect ableism even then. The mods of Hexbear are very strict about that kind of thing, so watching clown-to-clown communication between you and your buddy as you just outright lie on the internet about the nature of another online community, in a farcical echo to how your forebears fabricated lies about socialist states, demanded comment.
A good communist is suspicious of all leaders. Because nobody fucks the working class like leaders
Distrusting the vanguard is counterrevolutionary
The Marxist equivalent of “but the GDP…”
You’re so right, it would have been way better for everyone in the territory of the USSR to be illiterate and poor and starving, so they wouldn’t have cared so much when the Nazis effortlessly murdered everyone from western Poland to eastern Siberia. Who even needs industrial output when you could have a “”“horizontally-organized”“” bandit kingdom named after its unelected leader?
Ye ofc the only alternative the the Stalin regime was stagnation and defeat, clearly nothing else could have possibly have happened…
Why would there need to be an alternative? It was already the best possible version of what could have happened, within the bounds of a crushing siege by the entire capitalist world on one hand, and basic human fallibility on the other. There is no other political leader in history with a higher proportion of correct decisions to mistakes than Stalin, and they were mistakes, as in consequences not intended from actions taken earnestly to protect the people of the USSR - unlike the actual unspeakable atrocities being committed constantly by every single imperialist nation at the time, as well as before and since.
Even just on its own terms, the USSR was unimaginably more humane than what came before:
what existed outside of it:
and what came after:
This is called the “Eastern Cross” by the way, a demographic phenomenon unique to former nations of the USSR, where the death rate and birth rate suddenly cross over each other in the 90s. It’s way better that this happened, of course, than the USSR being run by “”“authoritarians”“” who would protect their people from sabotage and murder using the necessary amount of violence (that is, still less than their enemies).
But I forgot, we’re comparing an actual nation that had to actually exist in the dirt and blood of the real world, to the geometrically perfect platonic anarchist society that lives in your head, so I guess I have to concede. I’ll go tell all the communists in the third world to pack it up and disband their organizations and scratch out all the hammers and sickles so you can go tell them how to avoid being assassinated by the CIA the right way.
just to add this
lol just take up a hobby or go do some productive labour, why do you do this to yourself
I’m autistic. I know I should just disengage but sometimes I can’t help it.
plenty of better ways to spend your time, is all i want to say. like, is this really fulfilling for you or does it just feel empty afterwards?
Again, I’m autistic. I can’t always help myself from replying to goading and disinfo. It’s a waste of time for everyone involved.
Holy Jesus am I glad my new account is on an instance that defederated the tankie triad. Looking at this thread without logging in is something else.
This happens like clockwork whenever a meme makes fun of authcoms from a typical anarchist perspective. Always! You should see the 1000-comment salt mines of the very first such post I made.
