Getting killed for holding an lgbtq flag is definitely rare in most arab and muslims countries. You are tryig to move the goal post by now adding unintential killing and hateful non letal actions.
You are simply spreading Islamphobia with your generalization.
Holding a LGBT flag implies one is gay. Once one is known to be gay, they’re in real risk of being lynched to death or getting thrown in jail.
The issue isn’t just holding a flag, it’s any signal that communicates one is gay clearly.
You are framing it as “unintentional killing” but this is blatantly false and dishonest. People come out to kill gay men in places like Pakistan and other Muslim countries. Homosexuality is punishable by death in the UAE and Saudi Arabia, and this is similarly seen in many other places where Islam is law.
Islam is a deeply homophobic religion and that is fact.
You are defending Islam against it’s homophobia and are grossly downplaying how it kills gay men, directly and indirectly.
You are defending Islam against it’s homophobia and are grossly downplaying how it kills gay men, directly and indirectly.
Nobody denies that some muslims are homophobic, or that many muslim-majority states have homophobic laws and practices. They do.
The problem with your argument, though, is that many christian- and buddhist-majority countries also have similar homophobic laws and practices.
In fact, there are more christian-majority countries with homophobic laws than any other religion. Roughly illustrated above, yellow is christian-majority, orange is muslim-majority and green is buddhist majority.
By implying the problem is with islam in particular, rather than religion in general, you are behaving like an islamaphobe.
Christianity, yes, buddhism, nowhere near as much. There’s literally just 2-3 dots of Buddhism even in your own graphic, it’s misleading to even mention it.
Islam and Christianity are the primary religions responsible for homophobia.
Furthermore, it is not merely “many”, all Muslim countries have homophobic laws and practices. If you say this is not the case, I would like you to show me a single country that has Islam as its state religion and has legalized homosexuality. There are none. Also, not a single one of these countries, have legalized gay marriage.
There are many countries where the primary religion is Christianity but homosexuality is legal and even gay marriage is legal.
Let’s not pretend it’s the same.
Though I will say I have no fondness for Christianity, either. I do have a problem with abrahamic religion in general (buddhism is too minor in comparison for me to be concerned about).
I have a bigger problem with Islam because
the reasoning above, i.e. no Muslim countries have legalized homosexuality or gay marriage, whereas this is not true for non-muslim countries
I personally live in a Muslim country and have to deal with Islam-centric homophobia on a daily basis, so it is something I have a bigger issue with personally, yes.
If I am to be labelled an islamophobe for that, then sure, I would just consider the other person a homophobe.
But why the need to paint Christian states as somehow better? Isn’t it secularism that changed social attitudes? Christian churches were not supportive of equal rights for LGBT folks either (for the vast majority of churches, anyway). It’s still not safe to walk down the street holding hands with your gay partner in many supposedly civilised western countries.
Because I have a much higher shot at being safe and living just fine there as a gay man vs a Muslim country? That is something I see as better.
It’s generally safe to do so in North America (pre-Trump), West Europe, and Scandinavia. Certainly much safer than in Muslim countries.
It’s true that secularism is what improved conditions for queer people and not Christianity but the thing is that Christian-dominated countries have achieved secularism on a wide scale. This is not seen in the muslim world. There’s too much of a stronghold of religion on the people and the state there that won’t wash away any time soon. There’s too much outrage and religious zealotry that prevents progress from secularizing the state. This has happened in turkey to the most extent but that’s about it.
You was talking about murdering any gay person . I told you most muslim countries have descriminitory laws like jail or refusing to hire etc. Sausi arabia , afghanistan or Iran are not most of the arab and islamic countries. Yet you still insist about your lie. Tou are generalizing muslims which is islamophobic, shame on you.
This is a map with the type of law around lgbt discrimination. Most mention imprisonment which is bad but not murder.
If a man lies with a male as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable; they shall surely be put to death; their bloodguilt is upon them
From the torah would you say the same about jews or you know you can get away with islamophobia but not antisemetism
You are clearly not a queer person and are just focused on defending Islam, because any queer person would know that not being able to live your life without fear winds up equating to death anyway. What do you think happens when gay men cant exist in public the way straight people can, and can’t have relations with the people they love without fearing persecution from the state and being jailed?
Discrimination leads to death and gay men have the highest rates of suicide due to said discrimination.
Go over on equaldex and search any Muslim country there to see how abysmal it performs. Though I doubt you care about queer people’s lives, you’re likely just on a mission to show Islam in a good light.
Furthermore, extrajudiciary killings are a thing that occur in many Muslim countries even if it is not a state law. By not protecting queer people against hate crime and discrimination these states indirectly allow for mob justice and for people to get away with lynching gay men, even if it is not done by the state itself, directly.
The lack of protections against discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation in Muslim countries is easily verifiable. And it is this lack of protection that leads to us being killed.
From the torah would you say the same about jews or you know you can get away with islamophobia but not antisemetism
I am fully aware. This is a problem of all abrahamic religions. Islam, Christianity, Judaism— none of them are queer affirming. I don’t shy away from criticizing any religion.
This is not an Islam-exclusive issue, though it is most persistent in Muslim countries today as there are many christian nations that have progressed and removed these backwards laws, whereas there are no Muslim countries that have legalized homosexuality or gay marriage.
Shame on you for your blatant homophobia and downplaying how muslims treat gay men.
I never said jail is good, idiot. Stop selectively reading what I said. You are an dirty islamophobe. Your original claim was about killing not jail and discrimination
I never justified antthing you islamophobic piece of trash . Your claimed that most arab countries will kill you for being from the lgbt community, I gave you the source saying it is not thr case and told you to talk about descrimination and jail time not murder. Your xenophobic claim is to advocate people to not visit any of those countries because they are murderous countries
You sure did you homophobic piece of trash. Learn to read, I gave you sources too but I guess you couldn’t read them. I didn’t make any such claim; but yes, if you’re gay or queer, the Muslim world is not a safe space for you and will get you killed in one way or another. I gave you the reasoning on how jailing + discrimination leads to death even in the off-chance they aren’t killed by the state (which isn’t even the primary way it happens, it’s extrajudiciary killings and the lack of state protections that causes it mostly). You’re a homophobe that doesn’t care about queer people, only defending Islam because you’re a religious zealot.
Tell me where I said it was ok to jail or beat up the lgbt community? You lying about facts make you an islamophobic piece of trash. Just admit thst most arab countries have descriminatory laws and can jail people but do not lie about thr number of arab countries who kill lgbt people.
Getting killed for holding an lgbtq flag is definitely rare in most arab and muslims countries. You are tryig to move the goal post by now adding unintential killing and hateful non letal actions.
You are simply spreading Islamphobia with your generalization.
Holding a LGBT flag implies one is gay. Once one is known to be gay, they’re in real risk of being lynched to death or getting thrown in jail.
The issue isn’t just holding a flag, it’s any signal that communicates one is gay clearly.
You are framing it as “unintentional killing” but this is blatantly false and dishonest. People come out to kill gay men in places like Pakistan and other Muslim countries. Homosexuality is punishable by death in the UAE and Saudi Arabia, and this is similarly seen in many other places where Islam is law.
Islam is a deeply homophobic religion and that is fact.
You are defending Islam against it’s homophobia and are grossly downplaying how it kills gay men, directly and indirectly.
Nobody denies that some muslims are homophobic, or that many muslim-majority states have homophobic laws and practices. They do.
The problem with your argument, though, is that many christian- and buddhist-majority countries also have similar homophobic laws and practices.
In fact, there are more christian-majority countries with homophobic laws than any other religion. Roughly illustrated above, yellow is christian-majority, orange is muslim-majority and green is buddhist majority.
By implying the problem is with islam in particular, rather than religion in general, you are behaving like an islamaphobe.
Christianity, yes, buddhism, nowhere near as much. There’s literally just 2-3 dots of Buddhism even in your own graphic, it’s misleading to even mention it.
Islam and Christianity are the primary religions responsible for homophobia.
Furthermore, it is not merely “many”, all Muslim countries have homophobic laws and practices. If you say this is not the case, I would like you to show me a single country that has Islam as its state religion and has legalized homosexuality. There are none. Also, not a single one of these countries, have legalized gay marriage.
There are many countries where the primary religion is Christianity but homosexuality is legal and even gay marriage is legal.
Let’s not pretend it’s the same.
Though I will say I have no fondness for Christianity, either. I do have a problem with abrahamic religion in general (buddhism is too minor in comparison for me to be concerned about).
I have a bigger problem with Islam because
If I am to be labelled an islamophobe for that, then sure, I would just consider the other person a homophobe.
But why the need to paint Christian states as somehow better? Isn’t it secularism that changed social attitudes? Christian churches were not supportive of equal rights for LGBT folks either (for the vast majority of churches, anyway). It’s still not safe to walk down the street holding hands with your gay partner in many supposedly civilised western countries.
Because I have a much higher shot at being safe and living just fine there as a gay man vs a Muslim country? That is something I see as better.
It’s generally safe to do so in North America (pre-Trump), West Europe, and Scandinavia. Certainly much safer than in Muslim countries.
It’s true that secularism is what improved conditions for queer people and not Christianity but the thing is that Christian-dominated countries have achieved secularism on a wide scale. This is not seen in the muslim world. There’s too much of a stronghold of religion on the people and the state there that won’t wash away any time soon. There’s too much outrage and religious zealotry that prevents progress from secularizing the state. This has happened in turkey to the most extent but that’s about it.
You was talking about murdering any gay person . I told you most muslim countries have descriminitory laws like jail or refusing to hire etc. Sausi arabia , afghanistan or Iran are not most of the arab and islamic countries. Yet you still insist about your lie. Tou are generalizing muslims which is islamophobic, shame on you.
This is a map with the type of law around lgbt discrimination. Most mention imprisonment which is bad but not murder.
https://www.humandignitytrust.org/lgbt-the-law/map-of-criminalisation/
From the torah would you say the same about jews or you know you can get away with islamophobia but not antisemetism
Oh yeah jail, not murder— such a good thing.
You are clearly not a queer person and are just focused on defending Islam, because any queer person would know that not being able to live your life without fear winds up equating to death anyway. What do you think happens when gay men cant exist in public the way straight people can, and can’t have relations with the people they love without fearing persecution from the state and being jailed?
Discrimination leads to death and gay men have the highest rates of suicide due to said discrimination.
Go over on equaldex and search any Muslim country there to see how abysmal it performs. Though I doubt you care about queer people’s lives, you’re likely just on a mission to show Islam in a good light.
Furthermore, extrajudiciary killings are a thing that occur in many Muslim countries even if it is not a state law. By not protecting queer people against hate crime and discrimination these states indirectly allow for mob justice and for people to get away with lynching gay men, even if it is not done by the state itself, directly.
The lack of protections against discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation in Muslim countries is easily verifiable. And it is this lack of protection that leads to us being killed.
I am fully aware. This is a problem of all abrahamic religions. Islam, Christianity, Judaism— none of them are queer affirming. I don’t shy away from criticizing any religion.
This is not an Islam-exclusive issue, though it is most persistent in Muslim countries today as there are many christian nations that have progressed and removed these backwards laws, whereas there are no Muslim countries that have legalized homosexuality or gay marriage.
Shame on you for your blatant homophobia and downplaying how muslims treat gay men.
I never said jail is good, idiot. Stop selectively reading what I said. You are an dirty islamophobe. Your original claim was about killing not jail and discrimination
If you were able to read, homophobe, you would know why and how jail and discrimination = killing you illiterate nincompoop.
I never justified antthing you islamophobic piece of trash . Your claimed that most arab countries will kill you for being from the lgbt community, I gave you the source saying it is not thr case and told you to talk about descrimination and jail time not murder. Your xenophobic claim is to advocate people to not visit any of those countries because they are murderous countries
You sure did you homophobic piece of trash. Learn to read, I gave you sources too but I guess you couldn’t read them. I didn’t make any such claim; but yes, if you’re gay or queer, the Muslim world is not a safe space for you and will get you killed in one way or another. I gave you the reasoning on how jailing + discrimination leads to death even in the off-chance they aren’t killed by the state (which isn’t even the primary way it happens, it’s extrajudiciary killings and the lack of state protections that causes it mostly). You’re a homophobe that doesn’t care about queer people, only defending Islam because you’re a religious zealot.
Tell me where I said it was ok to jail or beat up the lgbt community? You lying about facts make you an islamophobic piece of trash. Just admit thst most arab countries have descriminatory laws and can jail people but do not lie about thr number of arab countries who kill lgbt people.