Not the person you replied to but I looked at lenovo when I bought my framework. I grew up with thinkpads as my dad was an IBMer. This was my first non-thinkpad.
Thin and lights in the same category as the framework laptops absolutely do not have choice of all of those components to the same degree. Increasingly Ram is even partially sodered, leaving one sodimm for upgradability, and there certainly wasn’t an option to leave out components and bring off the shelf parts, making the entire market of socketed components available to you for configuration on a framework (something I was excited I could take advantage of, and that saved me a decent chunk of money as a broke person who needed a new laptop.). I don’t recall there being anywhere near as many keyboard layouts.
The thinkpax carbon x1 literally has all soldered RAM. Two keyboard layouts. An included network card with optional mobile broadband. One display with touch or one without. And it’s unclear if the ssd is socketed though I’d guess it is. But you have to buy it from them though and it’s ludicrously expensive.
And a new motherboard is very explicitly not as expensive as a new laptop, with the current top spec amd main board being $700 cheaper than the same laptop with base configuration. Its less than 50% of the price of the base spec.
You’re talking out of your ass. Maybe lenovo has some options in the same category with more socketed components, I’m not going to go digging for then for the purposes of this argument. Many people might be better served by those if they’re an option (though they’re almost guaranteedly much more expensive, as thinkpads in general are much more expensive for the specs you get), but if what you want is upgradeability and repairability, no, lenovo very explicitly doesn’t compare, I compared them as I was shopping. I loved my thinkpads. They treated me well. They weren’t what I was looking for though, and I’m very excited that I can now upgrade my cpu and/or RAM in 5-10 years when I need an upgrade. I could not do that with a thinkpad.
Edit: just checked the T and E series and although they have socketed ram they also don’t have the same breadth of options or upgradability. Lenovo still makes amazing laptops, and I’m sure either of those would serve people well (though the T series is not really a direct competitior to the main framework 13" line), but if you want what a framework offers, you would not be as happy with the thinkpads.
The first other laptop with the same cpu to come up in a search is around the same price when specced similarly, and isn’t repairable.
Their lowest spec main board in a PC with base spec is $1099 for:
13.5" 2256x1504 60Hz Matte Display
16GB Memory
256GB Storage
Windows 11 Home
1-year limited warranty
That motherboard is 449. You’re talking out of your ass and either your troll is showing or you’re actually an idiot lol. Every motherboard sku is comparably affordable compared to the built laptops. And the built laptops are not unreasonably priced for their specs, given their quality and features (among which is upgradeability and repairability, something I’m willing to pay more for.)
It’s not a novelty to me that I can change my ports if I get into a creative hobby that benefits from having an SD card slot, or if all my peripherals move to type c, or if I get a setup where displayport is more valuable than my current hdmi (or I could literally have both if need be). Its certainly not a novelty to me that I can upgrade my cpu years down the line. And most thin and lights in the same product categoryhave soldered components. The Dell thin and light, the xps 13, also has soldered RAM.
I really don’t care if you want one. I don’t like throwing things away, I like repairing them instead. I like mending my clothes. When I have a home and have appliances I will take joy in getting them fixed. I like keeping my old devices going for as long as possible. My last phone until upgrading a year ago was a pixel 3. My previous thinkpad was from 2013, and I only didn’t bother to get it fixed when it broke because it’s specs were no longer keeping up, even on Linux. I like not contributing to e-waste. Not having to replace my laptop outright is worth money to me because it saves me money and is consistent with my desire to take care of the things I own rather than getting rid of and replacing them.
That doesn’t matter to you and that’s fine. But to call it a scam because you personally don’t value its core value proposition is dumb. And you look silly for arguing as such while simultaneously saying “you haven’t proven me wrong”
Sick. Buy something else lol. It’s obviously not the right product for your needs, that’s fine. Why try to convince everyone that it’s somehow wrong for theirs too when they’re happy with it? Have a nice day.
If the components aren’t soldered, then yes, it is. 🤦 My laptop is actually easier to repair than a framework is.
The ports are the silliest of the novelties lol. My laptop just has the ports I need, including an SD reader, and I didn’t have to pay outrageous prices for each port…
The core value proposition is a scam that is not realistic or cost effective for 99.9% of framework laptop owners. Fact.
Loses the argument and resorts to name calling… classic
It is a fact that by the time a CPU upgrade is warranted and you have to replace literally the entirety of the guts of the laptop (because the CPU is soldered…), besides the hard drive and maybe the RAM if you get really lucky with the upgrade path, the rest of the parts will have no value and will be worn, either needing refresh too, or not worth holding onto. For 99.9% it makes more sense to just buy a new laptop (for literally cheaper than framework) at that point
I’m “trolling” yet you’re the one failing to address my argument and also the one calling names… sorry you got duped and overpaid for a laptop that you’re likely going to just end up throwing out and replacing for cheaper…
Yes… they literally all do… 🤦
Here, let’s go through them each together:
Choice of storage? Yup.
Choice of memory? Yup.
Choice of display? Yup.
Choice of keyboard? Yup.
Choice of OS/battery/secondary drives/power adapter? Yup.
🙃
Not the person you replied to but I looked at lenovo when I bought my framework. I grew up with thinkpads as my dad was an IBMer. This was my first non-thinkpad.
Thin and lights in the same category as the framework laptops absolutely do not have choice of all of those components to the same degree. Increasingly Ram is even partially sodered, leaving one sodimm for upgradability, and there certainly wasn’t an option to leave out components and bring off the shelf parts, making the entire market of socketed components available to you for configuration on a framework (something I was excited I could take advantage of, and that saved me a decent chunk of money as a broke person who needed a new laptop.). I don’t recall there being anywhere near as many keyboard layouts.
The thinkpax carbon x1 literally has all soldered RAM. Two keyboard layouts. An included network card with optional mobile broadband. One display with touch or one without. And it’s unclear if the ssd is socketed though I’d guess it is. But you have to buy it from them though and it’s ludicrously expensive.
And a new motherboard is very explicitly not as expensive as a new laptop, with the current top spec amd main board being $700 cheaper than the same laptop with base configuration. Its less than 50% of the price of the base spec.
You’re talking out of your ass. Maybe lenovo has some options in the same category with more socketed components, I’m not going to go digging for then for the purposes of this argument. Many people might be better served by those if they’re an option (though they’re almost guaranteedly much more expensive, as thinkpads in general are much more expensive for the specs you get), but if what you want is upgradeability and repairability, no, lenovo very explicitly doesn’t compare, I compared them as I was shopping. I loved my thinkpads. They treated me well. They weren’t what I was looking for though, and I’m very excited that I can now upgrade my cpu and/or RAM in 5-10 years when I need an upgrade. I could not do that with a thinkpad.
Edit: just checked the T and E series and although they have socketed ram they also don’t have the same breadth of options or upgradability. Lenovo still makes amazing laptops, and I’m sure either of those would serve people well (though the T series is not really a direct competitior to the main framework 13" line), but if you want what a framework offers, you would not be as happy with the thinkpads.
Yeah I’m obviously not comparing to soldered components, so most of your comment is completely irrelevant.
The options you’re claiming can’t be configured, 1) literally can be, or 2) are silly novelties
$700 cheaper than a ridiculously overpriced laptop? Wow totally great point. 😂
I’m yet to be proven wrong. Enjoy holding onto an old beat up laptop case over the years for… reasons… totally worth it
The first other laptop with the same cpu to come up in a search is around the same price when specced similarly, and isn’t repairable.
Their lowest spec main board in a PC with base spec is $1099 for:
That motherboard is 449. You’re talking out of your ass and either your troll is showing or you’re actually an idiot lol. Every motherboard sku is comparably affordable compared to the built laptops. And the built laptops are not unreasonably priced for their specs, given their quality and features (among which is upgradeability and repairability, something I’m willing to pay more for.)
It’s not a novelty to me that I can change my ports if I get into a creative hobby that benefits from having an SD card slot, or if all my peripherals move to type c, or if I get a setup where displayport is more valuable than my current hdmi (or I could literally have both if need be). Its certainly not a novelty to me that I can upgrade my cpu years down the line. And most thin and lights in the same product category have soldered components. The Dell thin and light, the xps 13, also has soldered RAM.
I really don’t care if you want one. I don’t like throwing things away, I like repairing them instead. I like mending my clothes. When I have a home and have appliances I will take joy in getting them fixed. I like keeping my old devices going for as long as possible. My last phone until upgrading a year ago was a pixel 3. My previous thinkpad was from 2013, and I only didn’t bother to get it fixed when it broke because it’s specs were no longer keeping up, even on Linux. I like not contributing to e-waste. Not having to replace my laptop outright is worth money to me because it saves me money and is consistent with my desire to take care of the things I own rather than getting rid of and replacing them.
That doesn’t matter to you and that’s fine. But to call it a scam because you personally don’t value its core value proposition is dumb. And you look silly for arguing as such while simultaneously saying “you haven’t proven me wrong”
Sick. Buy something else lol. It’s obviously not the right product for your needs, that’s fine. Why try to convince everyone that it’s somehow wrong for theirs too when they’re happy with it? Have a nice day.
If the components aren’t soldered, then yes, it is. 🤦 My laptop is actually easier to repair than a framework is.
The ports are the silliest of the novelties lol. My laptop just has the ports I need, including an SD reader, and I didn’t have to pay outrageous prices for each port…
The core value proposition is a scam that is not realistic or cost effective for 99.9% of framework laptop owners. Fact.
You’re evidently a moron, and completely misunderstood what I typed.
Thats not what a fact is. its a fact that thats an oppinion; your troll is showing again. This is not worth my energy, have a nice day.
Loses the argument and resorts to name calling… classic
It is a fact that by the time a CPU upgrade is warranted and you have to replace literally the entirety of the guts of the laptop (because the CPU is soldered…), besides the hard drive and maybe the RAM if you get really lucky with the upgrade path, the rest of the parts will have no value and will be worn, either needing refresh too, or not worth holding onto. For 99.9% it makes more sense to just buy a new laptop (for literally cheaper than framework) at that point
Trolling is only effective is no one can tell you’re trolling.
I’m “trolling” yet you’re the one failing to address my argument and also the one calling names… sorry you got duped and overpaid for a laptop that you’re likely going to just end up throwing out and replacing for cheaper…